it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Visibility over practicality.
And using a ban as a 'first-line' intervention strategy is.. well, it's not an encouraging approach. You start with a light touch, then move up. Where are these extra security staff for public transport?
would be dissuasion. Never have I seen any suggestion that the act of drinking on the tube is contributing to antisocial behaviour; not from tube staff, nor and advertising material on the tube. I'm not sure whether you see it the same way, but every time I see a new ban, it seems like an admission of failure that we were unable to achieve those goals in a better way.
It's been said countless times below, but the real problem is more difficult to tackle: how to handle people who are going to be 'antisocial' down there regardless of whether there's a drink in their hand or whether they downed it at the station. This is more staff: who will cost a wee bit more than a few posters in stations.
I'd suggest this could actually lead to more drunk people on trains: people getting it down before they get on board. No evidence base; terrible policy-making.
for and against this ban are based essentially on nothing but anecdotal evidence, I can't really dismiss such an arguement.
The point I was making was that it has long been considered by many people to be rather inappropriate to drink in certain public places. And I beleive that society isn't crumbling and the real issue with anti-social behaviour is the perception of it, rather than its proliferance. Many people do feel incredibly intimidated being in a confined place in which people are drinking. They may not now actually be any safer, but they might well feel it.
Being drunk and loud is already ostensibly illegal anyway, so yes, PCSOs and Tube security staff are needed. I think the point I wanted to really get at was this is hardly a great injustice anyway, and mass outcry against it would seem a tad melodramatic
I'm not saying it's a terrible idea or anything. I do think, though, that this is exactly the kind of thing that we shouldn't really be letting slide quietly; a public ban on anything should always be cause for some pretty significant debate, and that Johnson is just pulling this out of the bag days after coming in, without conducting any kind of formal review (indeed, it all seems based on anecdotal evidence) is.. not good.
The perception factor is true, too; but raises some pretty unpleasant concepts too. All visions of a governing body that issues placebos rather than addresses real problems.
This was a policy that he always publically planned to implement, and may well have been a vote winner. I could be imagining it, but I'm sure there were stirrings of a similar nature under Livingstone?
Of course a government that routinely issued placebo policies rather than adressing real problems would be worrying. But so far this is an isloated incident and I'm sure, given Johnson's pledges, is merely the first step of a more holistic approach to the problem. We'll see in the coming months and years.
but for this to happen on the same day that the central government ignores key evidence over cannabis (another case of perceptions overriding evidence) suggests to me that it's not just Johnson (or even the Tories) for whom this is a key tactic.
So it's wrong of me to pick him out a bogeyman in the wider issue.
in my experience it's normally done by people who are aiming to get WaStEd. If you can cut down on this, then great. Plus it makes you look cheap, and can be intimidating.
i had a little mix up on the way as i couldnt afford to buy many drinks outside and it got me in a perfect state to arrie full of energy, confidence and woop woop
but i've never noticed a particular link between those i see sipping on a drink on the tube, and anti social behaviour. this just removes choice. also see my point about quick binge drinking, with reference to downing drinks at the old kick out time...
you will no longer be able to get tipsy legally. it is basscally going to mean that you either have to get to your detination then down some drink, because lets face it, drinking in central is pretty expensive, or you get drunk before your journey and therefore are a drunken nuisance on the tube. it's very unthoughtout
but that's my choice, and a) i'm not the sort to get drunk and cause a ruckus, and b) it's been widely proven that drinking slowly is a much safer way to drink, which this completely goes against. PROHIBITION FAILED!
but iif you want to get merry, as i know a lot of people do, then it is safer to do it slowly, i'm not suggesting that binge drinking is a good idea, but the slower you drink the safer it is, so causing a situation whereby people feel they only have a short period of time to down their drinks, will result in more people being suddenly much more drunk than they had bargained for half an hour later.
also as an aside, i've seen Boris fail to takle Henley on thames's youth drinking problem, so i'm inclined to think he doesn't have good policies
it was bound to happen after everyone bent over so backwards to accept the smoking ban. It will soon be illegal to drink anywhere other than your home or in a pub but there you'll be limited to two drinks. Thats my prediction by the way, not fact.
i'm not like 'OH NO I CAN'T GET WANKERED ON THE TRAIN'....
it's a social thing. me and friends used to have fun just taking a can or bottle on the tube on the way out, if you've been drinking at home and don't want to sober up on the way, it's nice to have one on the way.
it's not drinking that's anti-social behaviour... it's being drunk, and loud. and disrespectful. does that make sense??
when i went to see 65dos at the Indigo in greenwich i took a 1.5l coke bottle and added a nice bit of vodka to it. then my girlfriend and i enjoyed this on the tube on the way there, finished it just before getting into the venue, and were then nicely tipsy when the bands started. also we then didn't have to buy many £4 pints to get nicely drunk.
if you add vodka to a bottle of coke? Surely this is only going to apply to people drinking from cans/bottles of beer, wine, etc. It's not like they can check everyones coke bottles/flasks/whatever.
fag ends off the street do so because they can't afford to buy some. Some people who drink on the train do so because they can't afford to buy drinks. They must be stopped.
if it's about people being a nuisance then maybe just ban drinking after 10pm or something. then at least people can get tipsy before having to spend £4 a pint at some central london bar
and is drinking on the tube much of a problem really? drunks are, sure, but they're already drunk!
I drink on the tube. Whether it's for football or gigs, there's always a can in hand. It's the same for loads of people. It's not about getting hammed whilst travelling, just having a nice beer on the way to your destination.
nothing too shocking there
Meh
It is a bit inappropriate. I can't see this change is going to ruin anyone's life so any change that stems from it can only be positive
Still though
it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Visibility over practicality.
And using a ban as a 'first-line' intervention strategy is.. well, it's not an encouraging approach. You start with a light touch, then move up. Where are these extra security staff for public transport?
same place as those extra PCSOs.
Anti-social behaviour doesn't exist?
I would have thought this was an appropriate first-line strategy for anti-social behaviour.
A first line strategy
would be dissuasion. Never have I seen any suggestion that the act of drinking on the tube is contributing to antisocial behaviour; not from tube staff, nor and advertising material on the tube. I'm not sure whether you see it the same way, but every time I see a new ban, it seems like an admission of failure that we were unable to achieve those goals in a better way.
It's been said countless times below, but the real problem is more difficult to tackle: how to handle people who are going to be 'antisocial' down there regardless of whether there's a drink in their hand or whether they downed it at the station. This is more staff: who will cost a wee bit more than a few posters in stations.
I'd suggest this could actually lead to more drunk people on trains: people getting it down before they get on board. No evidence base; terrible policy-making.
Well seeing as both arguements
for and against this ban are based essentially on nothing but anecdotal evidence, I can't really dismiss such an arguement.
The point I was making was that it has long been considered by many people to be rather inappropriate to drink in certain public places. And I beleive that society isn't crumbling and the real issue with anti-social behaviour is the perception of it, rather than its proliferance. Many people do feel incredibly intimidated being in a confined place in which people are drinking. They may not now actually be any safer, but they might well feel it.
Being drunk and loud is already ostensibly illegal anyway, so yes, PCSOs and Tube security staff are needed. I think the point I wanted to really get at was this is hardly a great injustice anyway, and mass outcry against it would seem a tad melodramatic
Nah
I'm not saying it's a terrible idea or anything. I do think, though, that this is exactly the kind of thing that we shouldn't really be letting slide quietly; a public ban on anything should always be cause for some pretty significant debate, and that Johnson is just pulling this out of the bag days after coming in, without conducting any kind of formal review (indeed, it all seems based on anecdotal evidence) is.. not good.
The perception factor is true, too; but raises some pretty unpleasant concepts too. All visions of a governing body that issues placebos rather than addresses real problems.
In fairness to him
This was a policy that he always publically planned to implement, and may well have been a vote winner. I could be imagining it, but I'm sure there were stirrings of a similar nature under Livingstone?
Of course a government that routinely issued placebo policies rather than adressing real problems would be worrying. But so far this is an isloated incident and I'm sure, given Johnson's pledges, is merely the first step of a more holistic approach to the problem. We'll see in the coming months and years.
It could just be co-incidence..
but for this to happen on the same day that the central government ignores key evidence over cannabis (another case of perceptions overriding evidence) suggests to me that it's not just Johnson (or even the Tories) for whom this is a key tactic.
So it's wrong of me to pick him out a bogeyman in the wider issue.
I don't get why anyone would need to drink on the tube
most journeys are pretty short, surely you can wait until you get to the other end for some alcohol?
some nutters on here
want a drink all the time yeahhhh
^this this this
I wish he would come down just as hard on the music mobile phone brigade...
exactly
in my experience it's normally done by people who are aiming to get WaStEd. If you can cut down on this, then great. Plus it makes you look cheap, and can be intimidating.
look cheap?
it IS cheap!
now, come on, i know you've done it...
no, my journeys used to often take an hour or more
i had a little mix up on the way as i couldnt afford to buy many drinks outside and it got me in a perfect state to arrie full of energy, confidence and woop woop
^ This
When I was 16.
THIS MAN DOES NOT KNOW WHAT LIFE AS A YOUNG ADULT IN LONDON IS LIKE
I'm a young adult in London and I like this idea.
So i'd say he does.
agreed
i agree with cutting anti social behaviour
but i've never noticed a particular link between those i see sipping on a drink on the tube, and anti social behaviour. this just removes choice. also see my point about quick binge drinking, with reference to downing drinks at the old kick out time...
I can imagine this as a talking-head interview
in some tory propaganda.
underneath your name ("Gay") it will say "Young Adult"
i fucking hate drunk people on the tube at night
hi!
... but they're already drunk
and potentially not drinking.
^ this
I hadn't actually realised how much I hated them until I got on the tube, sober, at about 9pm on Saturday. It was fucking awful.
Oh no, having to wait between stations
before recommencing drinking!
if you live in zone 3 or 4 and travel in to central
you will no longer be able to get tipsy legally. it is basscally going to mean that you either have to get to your detination then down some drink, because lets face it, drinking in central is pretty expensive, or you get drunk before your journey and therefore are a drunken nuisance on the tube. it's very unthoughtout
exactly.
or you could just drink less
you know
GASP
watch it you!
i could also take less illegal drugs, and in fact do.
also, as you know i do drink too much
but that's my choice, and a) i'm not the sort to get drunk and cause a ruckus, and b) it's been widely proven that drinking slowly is a much safer way to drink, which this completely goes against. PROHIBITION FAILED!
good one
I'm being serious
why isn't that an option? Can't you have fun any other way?
people like to drink
so am i
i can have fun 'any other way' but i do like to get merry and i cant afford to buy more than two drinks anywhere in lodnon.
what a gypo
just wait the 20 minutes on the train and then go to the pub.
20 mins from ealing to liverpool street?
i think not.
and why should i have to pay a much inflated price for my drinks?
Not really Reece
you don't have to get twatted do you.
thats not to get twatted
we cant afford to get nicely drunk in lodnon.
sorry
obviously not
but iif you want to get merry, as i know a lot of people do, then it is safer to do it slowly, i'm not suggesting that binge drinking is a good idea, but the slower you drink the safer it is, so causing a situation whereby people feel they only have a short period of time to down their drinks, will result in more people being suddenly much more drunk than they had bargained for half an hour later.
also as an aside, i've seen Boris fail to takle Henley on thames's youth drinking problem, so i'm inclined to think he doesn't have good policies
Im afraid
it was bound to happen after everyone bent over so backwards to accept the smoking ban. It will soon be illegal to drink anywhere other than your home or in a pub but there you'll be limited to two drinks. Thats my prediction by the way, not fact.
Nah...
Way too many vested interests.
easily avoidable
drink one on the way to the tube station, drink another on the way from the station to wherever
or just drink in a pub.
:(
i like having a drink on my way out to somewhere.
its cheaper than waiting until the gig/club/whatever. and its fun too.
Fun how?
booze!
tits!
feck!
do you see?
well, no.
CANS ARE SHINY TEEHEE
Smashing in boring bastards like you's faces
can i add -
i'm not like 'OH NO I CAN'T GET WANKERED ON THE TRAIN'....
it's a social thing. me and friends used to have fun just taking a can or bottle on the tube on the way out, if you've been drinking at home and don't want to sober up on the way, it's nice to have one on the way.
it's not drinking that's anti-social behaviour... it's being drunk, and loud. and disrespectful. does that make sense??
^ this
recent example:
when i went to see 65dos at the Indigo in greenwich i took a 1.5l coke bottle and added a nice bit of vodka to it. then my girlfriend and i enjoyed this on the tube on the way there, finished it just before getting into the venue, and were then nicely tipsy when the bands started. also we then didn't have to buy many £4 pints to get nicely drunk.
precisely
exactly
i liked the word precisely more
yeah but you had already used it so i used exaclty
yeah but i feel i won on quickness and wordageness :D
i was backing up your precisely you DOOFUS
yeah but i won though, yeah?
there there
the importnat thing is you both agree with ME and how right I am.
precisexactly
heh. that looks funny. sexactly.
:D
how's anyone going to know
if you add vodka to a bottle of coke? Surely this is only going to apply to people drinking from cans/bottles of beer, wine, etc. It's not like they can check everyones coke bottles/flasks/whatever.
^ Exactly
Of course
but one thing leads to another.
yes, but again, it's a society thing.
it runs deeper than just banning booze on transport.
I agree wholeheartedly
but its his first change and he has been in the job 2 days. Lets see what else he does.
you're not 16 anymore
i know. what's your point?
it's for kids
anyone over the age of 20 who pours spirits into a coke bottle or equivalent needs to have a serious word with themself
no they dont
anyone who buys lots of drinks in the seriously over-priced bars/pubs/clubs in lodnon needs to have a serious word with themselves
i think you're antagonising me on purpose,
but i'll rise to it.
why is it for kids? i don't earn that much money, and drinking in pubs can be quite expensive. so, spirits into coke bottle... FTW.
it just strikes me
as something you do when you're on a school trip. It's on a par with people who pick up cigarette butts off the floor.
how is it on par?
people enjoying an alcoholic beverage en route to some bar or party or whatever is hardly the same as picking up fag ends off the street
yeah drinking on the tube is illegal
whereas picking up fag buts is the punishment you can expect from your community service
people who pick
fag ends off the street do so because they can't afford to buy some. Some people who drink on the train do so because they can't afford to buy drinks. They must be stopped.
you drink because you can't afford to?
poor logic there jackybabes
you're for kids!
exactly sarah
we dont want you being drunk and loud and disrespectful!
loud and disrespectful?
whats the got to do with Sarah being drunk?
*SAFETYWINK* ;)
:(
did you not see the safetywink?
:D
YES
^^^^^
if it's about people being a nuisance then maybe just ban drinking after 10pm or something. then at least people can get tipsy before having to spend £4 a pint at some central london bar
and is drinking on the tube much of a problem really? drunks are, sure, but they're already drunk!
Every time I go to London,
I drink on the tube. Whether it's for football or gigs, there's always a can in hand. It's the same for loads of people. It's not about getting hammed whilst travelling, just having a nice beer on the way to your destination.
The people who are a nuisance on the Tube
are drunk before they get on. Ban drinking everywhere please
so you can drink on trains
but not tubes? makes sense!
oh trains too
so you can't get a bit tipsy on a shortish train journey into town, but get hammered on a longer journey to another city is fine